Second Agenda/2 conference, 30 January 1991, LOTUSB forum, World of Lotus, Conference Room 1 (The Auditorium)

Conference transcript prepared by sysop Kevin Grantham.

Copyright 1991 World of Lotus, all rights reserved.


User ID Node Name

76702,1357 DTW Kevin R. Grantham (sysop) 76264,3275 BOL Sonjaya [Lotus]
76264,3275 BOU Mark [Lotus]
76264,3275 BOL Don [Lotus]
76655,2355 FMA Tom Timberlake
76605,174 NFK al camp
76274,122 SMC David Straus
76100,570 SFN Darlis Wood
75530,725 VAN Al Brill
73740,3464 OLY Robert J. Nicoloff 73257,2431 FYO bill
71271,3051 NYP Rob Kunstadt
71230,1775 ATO Jack Rambo
71117,1405 ASH John Hickman
100016,177 LDP Stephen Yeo

(1-1,Kevin (sysop)) Hi, Sonjaya!
(1-2,Sonjaya) Hi Kevin
(1-3,Mark) Hi are you?
(1-3,Mark) And the terminal behaving? (1-1,Kevin (sysop)) Fine, Mark how are you (1-1,Kevin (sysop)) Hello, Don.

(1-1,Kevin (sysop)) Hello, Stephen. We haven't started yet, just sort ...

of hanging around. You're welcome to hang around too! (1-7,Stephen) Hello Kevin. I'm fading fast, but still game (1-1,Kevin (sysop)) Coffee, Stephen, Coffee. And chocolate bars! (1-7,Stephen) All very well for you to say. But they don't sell Jolt on this

     side of the Atlantic, and I've been at work until 10 pm every night
     this week, sob sob
(1-1,Kevin (sysop)) Stephen, sounds like you have been toughening up ...
     in preparation for tonight!

(1-7,Stephen) but my legendary, unofficial wit may be flagging. (1-3,Mark [Lotus]) "Legendary" may be a bit strong <g> (1-1,Kevin (sysop)) Certainly "infamous" Stephen! (1-7,Stephen) yes. I even saw complaints about our Awk thread in another

(1-3,Mark [Lotus]) Don't even START on that again! (1-7,Stephen) A remote squawk about awk... (1-7,Stephen) ok ok.
(1-1,Kevin (sysop)) Where was this remote squawk about awk? (1-7,Stephen) IBMAPPS, where there is btw a very interesting study group

     underway on relational database theory and practice. but I couldn't
     resist the temptation to plug agenda as the solution to one of the
     sample problems...

(1-1,Kevin (sysop)) And as soon as you mentioned Agenda, a squawk arose?

(1-1,Kevin (sysop)) Hi, Darlis, glad you could make it! (1-5,Darlis Wood) Hi Kevin. Have I missed anything? (1-1,Kevin (sysop)) Not yet, Darlis, we haven't kicked off officially.

(1-4,Don) Windows Terminal is real stupid!! So I have to edit in the

notepad, then paste in here (should work ok i guess) (1-2,Sonjaya) Mark, we are using the windows(eck!) terminal and the windows

(double eck!) notepad
(1-1,Kevin (sysop)) You can't type straight into Terminal?

(1-3,Mark [Lotus]) Hello Stephen and either of you know how to

capture a session in CIM?
(1-5,Darlis Wood) I don't have CIM, Mark, I'm using ProComm and capturing to a

file on disc.
(1-7,Stephen) I use Tapcis. At $20 per hour, who can afford the compuserve

income multiplier ?

(1-1,Kevin (sysop)) Darlis, are you in CHAT mode? (1-5,Darlis Wood) Yes, I'm in CHAT mode. (1-1,Kevin (sysop)) And you know about /noecho, right? (1-5,Darlis Wood) What's /noecho?
(1-1,Kevin (sysop)) If you issue the /noecho command, CIS won't mix in ...

     what you are sending with the stuff coming to you. ...
     Makes your screen cleaner and easier to read.
(1-5,Darlis Wood) When I'm in CHAT mode, what I'm typing is on a little
     split-screen at the bottom.
(1-1,Kevin (sysop)) Right.  but if you send it when something else is ...
     coming in, it can get mixed together.  With ...
     /noecho, it won't, it will come out on a line by itself.

(1-5,Darlis Wood) OK, I'll try it.

(1-7,Stephen) Just made a cup of tea. can't we do this on a sunday afternoon

     (your time) one of these days? what about the vast number of Agenda
     users in Rome?
(1-1,Kevin (sysop)) Not to mention the vast number of military ...
     planners using Agenda in Baghdad!
(1-7,Stephen) Agenda unsuitable for wartime use. Printing all the orders would
     clearly TAKE IT TOO LONG!

(1-7,Stephen) ha, thought I would stir the pot (1-5,Darlis) What about the vast number of Lotus users who don't want to come

to the office on the weekend?

(1-1,Kevin (sysop)) OK, I guess we need to get the official portion on ...

     the road. To remind everyone, we will try to use the ...
     protocol where if you have a question, you type a ...
     single ? mark.  I will log that in, and call on ...
     you when it is your turn.

     When you are called upon, please send one line ...
     with an OK so that we know you are not asleep or ...
     have left the keyboard.  The, finish your question ...
     or statement with a ga (means go ahead) so the ...
     respondent knows when to reply.
     Now, Mark, do you have a statement on behalf of ...
     the Lotus folks assembled here, or should we begin ...
     by taking questions?

(1-3,Mark [Lotus]) Let's start with questions...Stephen first since he's

tired but Don is here as the print guru!

(1-7,Stephen) what compromises do the developers feel they had to make

in v 2 because of the 640K limit & the need to run on low end machines?

(1-4,Don [Lotus]) I dont know if compromise is a good word..

     I would say that the consideration of not only "low end"
     machines but laptops support as it exsisted during development
     had something to do with this feature as opposed to that
     one. But it was still decided to give as much consideration to
     those high end users as could be done in the time frame, EMS, etc..

(1-1,Kevin (sysop)) Follow up, Stephen?

(1-7,Stephen) all software involves compromises. it's not a dirty word..

     but let me give you two examples...
     printing functionality is way up, but printing speed has
     suffered and, just to show I'm not quite a monomaniac on this...
     the browsing of datebook views is a significant advance, but its
     implementation violates the fundamental Agenda approach of
     "wherever you can view it, you can edit/delete/discard it, because
     browsing in datebook views isn't "live" in the sense that the other
     views are live. just two examples of things I see as important
     compromises. ga

(1-3,Mark [Lotus]) Not have to enter ENTER to anchor a datebook

for that but you can still edit on a browsed page <ga>

(1-4,Don [Lotus]) I would like to comment on 2 of the issuse briefly, then

let Sonjaya followup..

     I could debate the printing issues for a while, but I think
     all can agree that the improvement over 1.0 is vast...
     and as in all software develomnent, the key word is ongoing

     If we ever go it right the first time, then we might as well
     go looking for a new job (:-)...

     Just a joke, but we are always continuing to make decesions
     that try to (and I'll use your word) compromise for what we feel is the
     best decision at the time, and from feedback from those users who

     I'll get off my soapbox, sonjay (ga)

(1-2,Sonjaya [Lotus]) If I may add 640K does provide a hassle, and does...

     slow things down, we have to play all these swapping games with the
     code and data, that we woudln't have to do if we had all the memory...

     as to low end support, the damage is already done to us by the
     640K boundry ga

(1-7,Stephen) well, I'll say again that compromise isn't meant as a dirty

     word just a description of a decision made subject to
     constraints but as a user who has rel little need for enhanced
     printing, but a strong need for quick and frequent printing,
     it seems to me that 640K has forced you to make a decision which
     I'm uncomfortable with. I wonder whether you were tempted by
     dos extenders or requiring ems? ga

(1-4,Don [Lotus]) I understand and appreciate your concern...

     What I won't do here is debate the decisions and the
     process but I will try to reassure you that...
     at the time when we were upgrading printing and making...
     feature decisions VS ship dates VS customer requests...
     at the time, those decisions were and felt right...
     this is not to say that I am telling you we regret or ...
     admit to making a mistake...

     no, I think that Agenda 2.0 is a signifcant improvement over
     1.0 and there are some people with concerns about slower...
     printing capabilities...

     Most of the input we recieved at the time kept telling us
     that 1.0 printing was inadequate and the 2.0 improvements were

     I understand your frustration with large databases and quick
     print jobs...

     I can only say that I really want your feedback, and I will
     continue to add all of the improvements to ongoing developments
     in printing, and other areas and user feedback will be a
     driving force.. (whew!!) ga

(1-7,Stephen) I'm not critical. You have a much broader view of the

     Agenda user community.  I'm interested in how the product will
     evolve, though, and whether you see Agenda as hitting a brick
     wall at 640K. how much more can you do in that space, unless you
     licence VROOM from Borland
     couldn't resist that ga

(1-3,Mark [Lotus]) VROOM...jeez
(1-4,Don [Lotus]) who's borland??
(1-7,Stephen) ask your lawyers

(1-4,Don [Lotus]) well, I'm not taking any of your comments personally...

     and I think you raise some good points. I can't tell you everything
     that goes on here but I will say that your concern with 640K ...
     is the same as ours, and we will not let [that] stop us <ga>

(1-7,Stephen) OK, but I don't want to monopolise the conversation. Kevin? (1-1,Kevin (sysop)) I do have a question unrelated to printing. (1-4,Don [Lotus]) Really! (will be nice)

(1-1,Kevin (sysop)) There is a (reported) bug in the week number ...

     routines.  Is this accepted and on the fix list?

(1-3,Mark [Lotus]) Kevin...perhaps you can describe the...

bug. Is this the "incrementing from 0" thing <ga>

(1-1,Kevin (sysop)) Yes, pretty much. I have Agenda running in ...

     another Desqview window, with the problem ...
     displayed.  If I enter an item with 1-Jan as the ...
     date, and display the WHEN date as the week ...
     number, I get 0 instead of 1.  Also, the week ...
     number flips over on Saturday instead of Monday, ...
     as is usual, and is not receptive to the settings ...
     for start and end of week (I'm not sure it should ...

(1-3,Mark [Lotus]) Don and Sonjaya...I don't know the answer...

     to this one. Should it wait for Mike?

(1-2,Sonjaya [Lotus]) It's not on the list I am [aware of]

     I do remember discussion about it thought, so yes, we
     should wait for mike on this one ga

(1-7,Stephen) can I return to a question about memory use...

     I love the way version 2.0 uses ems, but I don't quite understand
     how it uses it.. do be more specific..

     does Agenda actually store the database in EMS and bring it back
     into low memory through the page frame as it needs it..
     or does it use EMS as a sort of cache for bits and pieces..

     the reason I ask is that Agenda still seems keen on saving the
     database on all sorts of occasions, even though I have so much
     ems that it looks as if the whole database is loaded there ga

(1-4,Don [Lotus]) Kevin, didn't you get the EMS paper from Joe...

Najjar and put it up on the system...

also I think last time he gave a great explanation on this one..

We don't mind doing it again but I thought it would save time. ga

(1-1,Kevin (sysop)) I don't remember seeing an EMS paper from Joe.

(1-3,Mark [Lotus]) I remember Joe's paper but I don't think...

     I ever gave it to Kevin. If it's OK with Mike, I certainly can.

(1-4,Don [Lotus]) Would that be ok with Stephen...

it's a very detailed article on EMS use and Agenda ga

(1-3,Mark [Lotus]) How about a quick description, Don? (1-4,Don [Lotus]) Sonjaya is preparing an answer already (1-2,Sonjaya [Lotus]) give me a second while I whip up a quick response ga

(1-2,Sonjaya [Lotus]) I'm ready with the response to the EMS question

Here's a quick answer...

Without EMS, we don't load the whole program in memory, so the first thing when we detect EMS is load in the rest of the program, then we load as much of the data we can. Your main question seems... to be why does it save so often...

The places it saves it [are when] going to print, after doing a compress, and exiting to the system, and during autosaves of course, did I miss any don? ga

(1-4,Don [Lotus]) Stephen, are you asking ifr the whole data base is

in memory or why is it saving it so much??

(1-7,Stephen) both really, or rather, if saving is a way of freeing up

     memory (as in printing, why save if the database is (or can be
     placed in ems anyway?

(1-4,Don [Lotus]) well, this may come as a suprise, or maybe not...

     but printing is actually launched from Agenda...
     so before we can leave Agenda to print, we need to save it

(1-1,Kevin (sysop)) Don, does that imply printing is almost a ...

completely different system, parallel to Agenda?

(1-4,Don [Lotus]) well...

     The formatter lives in the Agenda core, and we don't fully
     leave  the agenda world, as we have hooks into the file
     reservation system so file handles in dos wouldn't get lost...

     but, the data base does get saved and the formatted file
     which is outputted on the disk, is then passed off to the
     print driver system ga

(1-7,Stephen) bear with me, I'm not a programmer, so my questions are

     probably naive but if the database is in ems, why can't it just
     continue to sit there while you format and then shell out to the
     printing routines?

(1-4,Don [Lotus]) Well, that brings up a lot of other problems..

     The first one is, if you are going do something...
     that might potentially damage or allow your...
     data base to be damaged, like shelling out or launching...
     then you would want to save it anyway, right??...

     so, on that same thought, if you didn't have ...
     enough EMS to get the whole database, then you would have to
     save it anyway.. and then there's the issue of running on a network
     and saving and restoring, or tying up reservations while the
     file is in EMS on your system.

(1-7,Stephen) sure, I can see that if you can't fit it into ems, you have to

put it ..

(1-1,Kevin (sysop)) Let's get to Al's question for a moment, and then ...

come back to memory issues.

(1-6,Al Brill) Does Lotus have plans to expand their "inventory" of printer


(1-4,Don [Lotus]) At this time we are not planning any additional upgrades

or additions to the existing printer driver pool ga

(1-6,Al Brill) It seems the four or five are a minimal list (1-3,Mark [Lotus]) 4 or 5 what?
(1-4,Don [Lotus]) ??? I didnt get that quite right, did I?? (1-6,Al Brill) 4 or 5 printers that are offered by AG

(1-3,Mark [Lotus]) There are lots more than that...Don?

(1-4,Don [Lotus]) I believe the current list is over 90 printers in

Agenda 2.0

(1-6,Al Brill) where do I find them. There's only 4 or 5 on my setup screen

(1-4,Don [Lotus]) When you Installed agenda, did you select just a few,

or one, or how many did you pick...

     If you just select say the epson 80 then you might see 15 printers
     in Setup because several printers use the same drivers ga

(1-6,Al Brill) It's been so long that I don't remember.. The issue has just

come up for me because I bought a Panasone KXp 1624

(1-4,Don [Lotus]) a 1624 or an 1124??

(1-6,Al Brill) 1624, its the W-I-D-E 1124

(1-4,Don [Lotus]) then you can use the LQ-2500 driver to run it...

I believe thats the default setting of the 1124 ga

(1-6,Al Brill) Is that driver on a printer list that I have and don't know


(1-4,Don [Lotus]) yes...

     if you go back and run install answer the question about adding
     additional printers then select the Epson Lq-2500, you should be ok

(1-6,Al Brill) ok thanks, I'll do that

(1-1,Kevin (sysop)) OK, Stephen you're up to bat now! (1-7,Stephen) Can I be very rude and say goodnight? (1-1,Kevin (sysop)) OK, but only if you can stand waiting until the ... (1-1,Kevin (sysop)) next conference to get your questions answered! (1-3,Mark [Lotus])'re no fun. (1-4,Don [Lotus]) I hope I didn't chase you off??? (1-7,Stephen) honest, I don't give up that quickly. I'm falling asleep!

     it's 2:15 am and I can't stay awake much longer (I live in

(1-2,Sonjaya [Lotus]) I do have one more shot at an answer for your question


     When working in Agenda, Agenda can actually keep the database in
     four differenct places under the 640K hood, in ems, in a special...
     shadow file, and in the actual file itself.

     The place where we keep track of everything is under the 640K hood.
     When we shell to print we lose everything under the hood, so if we
     didn't save, we would lose track of where everything is and
     hopelessly damage the file, does this clear things up any more??

(1-7,Stephen) yes, it does.. but you can't ship this up to ems instead

of to disk?

(1-2,Sonjaya [Lotus]) no because we can't guarantee we will have enough

(1-7,Stephen) ok

     I will say goodnight now. If my wife knew what I was really

     "Just have some work to finish for tomorrow, dear..."

     Thanks to Kevin for organizing this, to the Agenda people for
     their patience in answering my questions & hope you continue
     the good work on the most interesting programme i know..

     bye from London

(1-1,Kevin (sysop)) Good night, Stephen, and thanks for coming! (1-3,Mark [Lotus]) Good night, Stephen! (1-2,Sonjaya [Lotus]) Good night Stephen!! (1-4,Don [Lotus]) good night, hope it helped

(1-9,bill) How much expanded memory should be given over to Agenda?

     I can give it as much as 2048.  I thought I heard somewhere
     that the program slowed if the program itself was in expanded memory.

(1-2,Sonjaya [Lotus]) Don, correct me if I am wrong, but the more memory

the better, so if you can afford to give it all the 2048, then do so

(1-4,Don [Lotus]) if your talking about EMS for Agenda, and not Virtual

for printing

     I think you heard that if certain EMS drivers were used...
     the program was slower

(1-1,Kevin (sysop)) Bill, do you have followup questions?

(1-9,bill) I am using the BOCA AT Ram board. Have you had any problems

with that board.

(1-4,Don [Lotus]) cant say I have any knowledge of specific problems

I do think Joe's paper address some RAM board issues

(1-1,Kevin (sysop)) Any other questions, bill?

(1-9,bill) Is there any advantage to setting up a disk cache in addition to

expanded memory.

(1-4,Don [Lotus]) Not really, I think you will notice better performance

with EMS ( but don't take away from your disk cache)

let me clarify that...

     A disk Cache will give you a performance increase for a slow
     hard drive and EMS will improve performance on a slow drive...

     I can only say, play with the values and try both...

     There are so many different system types its hard to be specific
     about any one...

(1-9,bill) I appreciate your help.

(1-1,Kevin (sysop)) Rob, do you have any questions tonight?

(1-5,Rob Kunstadt) There are various commercial print manager..

     programs that say they can permit background..
     printing. Are any suitable for agenda?

(1-4,Don [Lotus]) Good question?? ...

     During our testing, we had to make a decision as to how...
     if any would we test these managers

     well, let me put the QA cycle in perspective...

     We have over 90 printers...
     Most allow 10+ fonts to be printed...
     the postscript, hundreds...
     then there is landscape and portrasit...
     then we have all the various paper sizes ...
     then when you multiply all that testing...
     and include all the various option settings...
     that took up the better part of a year..

     now to add print managers, lan printing assists and...
     multiply those, well I think you see my point..

     so as Sonjaya would, I just should have said "I don't know"..
     (sorry for the speech)

(1-5,Rob Kunstadt) I know it is ridiculous that there is no pronter


     I will never again buy a printer that is not strict IBM

     Another question..

     If printing results in a save operation, I would assume it is
     safe to shut off the power after printing, without a save and exit?

(1-4,Don [Lotus]) Well, I would like to say yes its ok, but somebody...

     outthere would do it, then quote me, and I would be ...
     well, you know.  So I'll say this...

     if your power goes off after saving during a print
     operation you would most likley be safe

(1-1,Kevin (sysop)) Rob, let's get to Jack's question now. (1-1,Kevin (sysop)) We'll come back to you in a few minutes, Rob.

(1-11,Jack Rambo) Sorry, I'm late. I keep getting 2012 errors in different


(1-2,Sonjaya [Lotus]) I have it

(1-2,Sonjaya [Lotus]) Jack, were the 2012's happening in datebook views, and

if not where were they happening? ga

(1-11,Jack Rambo) Didn't notice that they happened there exclusively

      I was told that there might be some problems with Compress &
      Transfer Template

(1-2,Sonjaya [Lotus]) We do know of a problem with 2012's appearing in

datebook views and that problem is being addressed...

     Yes, there is a problem with compress and template,
     and [that] also has been addressed ga

(1-2,Sonjaya [Lotus]) OK

(1-11,Jack Rambo) Do those problems exist in the maintenance release?

There's a new one coming?

(1-3,Mark [Lotus]) The compress and template import bugs are being...

     treated as non-trivial problems, so we are preparing...
     material to address them. Nothing that we can announce...
     tonight, however.

(1-2,Sonjaya [Lotus]) To answer Jack's question, The compress/template

bug is in the maintenance release ga

oops I didn't say "bug", I said non-trivial problem

(1-11,Jack Rambo) When is a maintenance release coming?

(1-3,Mark [Lotus]) As I just mentioned...we need to solve these issues...

and soon, but I don't have a date I can give you.

(1-11,Jack Rambo) ok thanks

(1-1,Kevin (sysop)) Let's take Bill's question now. Bill?

(1-9,bill) Are there any plans to release a mouse driver for Agenda

similar to the one for Magellan?

(1-4,Don [Lotus]) no!
(1-11,Jack Rambo) here, here!
(1-11,Jack Rambo) sorry, my here, here was for no mouse driver

(1-9,bill) why not?

(1-3,Mark [Lotus]) the Flast's carry a third-party mouse driver?

(1-1,Kevin (sysop)) I believe that they do, Mark

(1-4,Don [Lotus]) there you go, saved by the Mark!

(1-9,bill) I didn't mean to be rude but it would seem a Lotus engineered

driver would be better than a third party driver.

(1-3,Mark [Lotus]) Yes, Lotus engineered would be better, but greater...

things (Windows and OS/2) beckon.

(1-1,Kevin (sysop)) I guess if you want a mouse, you have to buy ...

Notes, eh?
(1-3,Mark [Lotus]) No Notes jokes!

(1-1,Kevin (sysop)) Mr (Ms?) Hickman! Glad to see you.

     Do you have a question for our esteemed panel ...

(1-7,hickman) Mr (John)

(1-7,hickman) Just got in. Work is the curse of the drinking calss<g> (1-3,Mark [Lotus]) He knows us well.
(1-7,hickman) Fraid so.

(1-7,hickman) Any progress on
(1-7,hickman) QDP?

(1-9,bill) I don't have a question. I just wanted to congratulate the

     people who developed the trial notebook template.  It works like
     a charm and is well organized.

(1-3,Mark [Lotus]) Thank you Bill, I worked on that, although as...

     part of a team of a couple other apps designers,...
     doc specialists, and a great beta group...and...
     how about that price? <g>

(1-9,bill) fantastic price.

(1-7,hickman) Who or what is the Trial Notebook?

(1-3,Mark [Lotus]) the Trial Notebook is one of two free legal apps

we've developed and distribute.

(1-7,hickman) Oh yes, I remember. Us old guys need a little jog

once in a while

(1-7,hickman) Also, is there a fix in the works for TOTALS in DATEBOOKS?

(1-11,Jack Rambo) What's the purpose of " " text conditions in Planner?

(1-2,Sonjaya [Lotus]) What " " text condition do you mean, I have

planner up here

do you mean the short name " " on Contact list?

(1-11,Jack Rambo) People, Ty, No Type categories, etc.

(1-3,Mark [Lotus]) I need more info...where is the " " seen?

(1-11,Jack Rambo) In "Also Match"

(1-2,Sonjaya [Lotus]) On my planner, which should be the shipped version, I

     have text in that field, also, quick answer to hickman, yes there
     is a fix for that non-trivial problem

(1-3,Mark [Lotus]) Jack...there IS a reason and I can't remember it...

     I will research and post it tonite or tomorrow unless...
     Sonjay [or] Don can think of it.

(1-4,Don [Lotus]) not me. ga

(1-7,hickman) Thanks, when will it be available

(1-1,Kevin (sysop)) John, there is no announced availability for the ...

fixes yet

(1-9,bill) Sorry to interrupt. Just wanted to thank everyone for their

help and say goodnight. I have to sign off now. Bye! (1-1,Kevin (sysop)) Good night, bill, glad you could come by!

(1-2,Sonjaya [Lotus]) The " " in contact is a short name and is

there so that the word Contact list does't appear in columns

(1-1,Kevin (sysop)) Don, would you like to address QDP now?

(1-4,Don [Lotus]) ok I would...

     I have been following some of the threads and have been curious
     about it.  it seems that a quick way to print has overshadowed
     a better way to print...

     well, I will not debate the wisdom of the users, but I would
     like to ask a question of them...

     Wouldn't it better if we spent time working on ways to improve
     and integrate printing for the future Agenda development,
     instead of concentrating on the small problems that we might...
     [be] faced with now...

     this is not say that it is not a major issue to some...
     of you, I can understand how passionate some of you get when
     it comes to printing but I do want you to know that...
     we are listening, and even though this issue is not planned
     to be addressed immediately it will be addressed... ga

(1-7,hickman) Don, some of my employees are on 1.01 and are unwilling

to allow me to buy them [2.0] because of the printing mess.

(1-7,hickman) Don, its slow and unpredictable. ga

(1-1,Kevin (sysop)) OK, Don....

     When the user base asked for enhanced printing, it ...
     meant that they were reasonably satisfied with the ...
     draft mode printing in Agenda 1, for the ...
     applications that used it, but that they wished to ...
     add enhanced printing as well.  The threads you ...
     see are in response to the fact that one feature, ...
     draft mode, or QDP if you will, was taken away in ...
     order to get the pretty print.  The problem is ...
     that Agenda is used in several different ways.

     Take my case, for example, back when I was ...
     employed.  I had to manage and I had to report.  ...
     Reporting to senior management could easily have ...
     used the enhanced printing we have now.  But...I ...
     also used Agenda to manage.  I need to be able to ...
     fire off task lists and so forth.  Enhanced ...
     printing does nothing for that application.

     Therefore, people like me feel keenly the lack of ...
     speed in Agenda 2.  Does that make any sense?

(1-7,hickman) Kevin stated it well...

     As a CEO, I must say we don't NEED fancy print...
     just to get the message.

(1-4,Don [Lotus]) I agree with you...

     I remember the discussions and trade offs at the time...
     I dont think that we will come to  any decisions here tonight...

     but I will say again, I tend to agree of the need

     I know all continuing development is taking that into  consideration
     (not trying to evasive)

(1-7,hickman) Thanks for listening. I think QDP is crucial to AGENDA success

in the future.

(1-3,Mark [Lotus]) QDP is a DEFINITE Agenda 3.0 concern

(1-7,hickman) Oh HAPPY day!!!!!!!!!!!

(1-9,Jack Rambo) Are there plans to add a scheduling conflict checking


(1-3,Mark [Lotus]) Jack - We hear that request a lot. You can do it to

     an extent with some creative macro coding, but it really starts
     getting into "What features shall we think of for the NEXT major
     release of Agenda?"

(1-9,Jack Rambo) W/o going into detail, can you give me an idea of how

such a macro works?

(1-7,hickman) I'm gone. Thanks for being here. (John)

(1-3,Mark [Lotus]) I'm assuming an Agenda DB shared on a network...

     schedule items are prepared in other apps, other...
     Planners, say, and exported to STF files. The network...
     app has a macro that A) Imports the STF files B) looks...
     at their time assignments (#HIGHLIGHT_VALUE), C) uses...
     these time assignments to filter for any EXISTING
     items in those time slots, and reports, via an ALERT box,
     when such an existing item is found.

(1-9,Jack Rambo) And that could include a time range, say from 1:00-3:00 pm?

(1-3,Mark [Lotus]) Jack -'d collect the times and the date...

     from the imported data and store them in variables...
     use those variables to construct a temporary datebook...
     view of existing items (the variables would be used
     in a macro to create the view from scratch)

(1-9,Jack Rambo) Thanks, a starting point! How about plans for a dialer?

(1-3,Mark [Lotus]) Jack - Definite plans for 3.0 (built-in). I've...

     just been looking at a nice third-party one...
     from Rosebud Systems called ADIAL. The "Coming...
     to Order" newsletter sells this in their catalog.

     ADIAL is a 2.0 dialer, needless to say

(1-9,Jack Rambo) Has there only been 1 main. update for 2.0?

(1-3,Mark [Lotus]) Yes, just the one

(1-9,Jack Rambo) Thanks for your help, Mark. (1-9,Jack Rambo) Will the transcript for this conf be posted soon? (1-1,Kevin (sysop)) As soon as I can get to it, Jack. Why, you think ... (1-1,Kevin (sysop)) it was that good?
(1-1,Kevin (sysop)) <grin>

(1-1,Kevin (sysop)) I think David had a question, Mark

(1-3,Mark [Lotus]) What's up, David?

(1-2,David Straus) Well the performance of my agenda (once moved from

     1.0 to 2.0 w/update, has really gone down hill.  I'm not a happy
     camper.  I'm running on a compaq 286 w 1mb extra memory
     (1/2 extended, 1/2 expanded).

(1-3,Mark [Lotus]) The machine sounds plenty powerful. I wonder if you...

could be suffering from circular date references...

     this plagued many 1.0 conversions. Kevin, how do...
     users correct this when it happens? ga

(1-1,Kevin (sysop)) Most of the time it is due to using the date ...

     workarounds in version 1, where you have all these ...
     categories for this week, next week, etc.  That ...
     seems to conflict with the WHEN category, so ...
     deleteing those categories (and going to datebook ...
     views) seems to clear up most of the problems.

(1-2,David Straus) I started building a very complex Todolist db, right

     when 1.0 came out. It is the reason I bought agenda.  When the
     templates from Lotus came out I was surprised at how similar it
     was to my simple original version.  I do use a number of "when"
     based views.

(1-3,Mark [Lotus]) Genius follows many paths!

(1-1,Kevin (sysop)) David, when you create a SHOW view of circular ...

references, do you see many?

(1-2,David Straus) I've never tried to create a show view of circ.

     references. Like the typical user, I've never picked up the

(1-1,Kevin (sysop)) Try that, see what you can fix from the SHOW view,

and see how that speeds things up.

(1-2,David Straus) Thanks. Like the performance or not I'm a true blue,

     you can't get it away from me Agenda user.  I use it at least
     2 - 3 times every day!

(1-3,Mark [Lotus]) Thanks david, we appreciate the support

(1-2,David Straus) A quick comment to Lotus. I've got a ton of ideas

     for Agenda.  Just send me the source, and I'll send you the
     updated version.

(1-3,Mark [Lotus]) David - how about you send me a forum msg of ideas...

they get antsy about the source 'round here!! <g>

(1-2,David Straus) Mark, O.K. If you won't give up the source, I'll


(1-3,Mark [Lotus]) I'm just a marketing gut...I'm not sure I'd know

source if I saw it!

(1-3,Mark [Lotus]) A marketing guy! let's leave the gut out of this!

(1-2,David Straus) Mark, It's o.k., I just a manager, and my folks won't

actually let me near the code anymore.

(1-3,Mark [Lotus]) A sound policy, I'm sure.

(1-1,Kevin (sysop)) Oh, Agenda has sound support now? Adlib? Roland? ...

This is great! A new rumour!

(1-3,Mark [Lotus]) Don't get me in trouble, Kevin

(1-3,Mark [Lotus]) I'm going to have to yield the phone gang. Any last


(1-2,David Straus) Good night and thanks. (1-1,Kevin (sysop)) Thanks for setting all this up, Mark. (1-1,Kevin (sysop)) I'll attribute the rumour to Mike, since he isn't ... (1-1,Kevin (sysop)) here to defend himself! (1-3,Mark [Lotus]) Thank YOU. Talk to you soon! (1-3,Mark [Lotus]) Heh heh heh
(1-5,al camp) Good night
(1-1,Kevin (sysop)) Good night.