This is the capture log, suitably edited, of the Agenda Conference held in the Clubroom, Room 2, of the Lotus Words & Pixels Forum (LOTUSB) on Compuserve, on 23 October 1990.

Attending were:

User ID Nod Area Name

    70715,1067     DTW  Rm  2    John Paul           Agenda owner
    71220,2712     ALB  Rm  2    Marcus              Agenda owner
    72170,17       NRL  Rm  2    Bob & Lauren Flast  EyeOn Associates
    72177,3652     DCF  Rm  2    Duffy               Agenda owner
    72241,215      PIS  Rm  2    Rick                Agenda owner
    72330,115      SMO  Rm  2    Dennis Laudermilch  Agenda owner
    73257,2431     FYO  Rm  2    -bill               Agenda owner
    73277,204      TTC  Rm  2    Peter With[Toronto] Agenda owner
    73457,363      LOO  Rm  2    J. Nile Wendorf     Agenda owner
    76264,3275     HAM  Rm  2    Don B [Lotus]       Print specialist
    76264,3275     BOL  Rm  2    Fran T [Lotus]      Documentation
    76264,3275     BOL  Rm  2    Joe N. [Lotus]      EMS and TXT2STF
    76264,3275     BOU  Rm  2    Mark V. [Lotus]     Applications
    76264,3275     CJU  Rm  2    Mike K [Lotus]      Mr. Agenda, the boss
    76702,1357     DTW  Rm  2    Kevin/sysop         overworked/underpaid
    76702,423      BOU  Rm  2    Doug K (Lotus)      Original Agenda devel.
    76702,612      PRI  Rm  2    Chris Leach LOTUSA  visiting from "across
                                                     the street"

Capture buffer opened Tue Oct 23 18:14:51

(2-2,Don B [Lotus]) Hi Kevin!!
(2-4,Kevin/sysop) Hi, Don
(2-4,Kevin/sysop) Hello, Fran, Joe, glad you all could make it (2-2,Don B [Lotus]) Mark should be on shortly, the rest of us are just tring to

get used to
(2-2,Don B [Lotus]) this new media
(2-4,Kevin/sysop) Fran, what are you and Joe using (2-1,Fran T [Lotus]) Symphony
(2-3,Joe N. [Lotus]) I'm using the Windows Terminal program (2-2,Don B [Lotus]) Kevin. It's been a couple of years since I have been on,

and the rest
(2-2,Don B [Lotus]) of us have never been on a conference. (2-4,Kevin/sysop) No problem. Take it easy. (2-2,Don B [Lotus]) So a few word about protocol andf how to type long messages

etc. would
(2-2,Don B [Lotus]) be of help!!
(2-4,Kevin/sysop) You can do a /ust from time to time to see who has ... (2-4,Kevin/sysop) logged in.
(2-3,Joe N. [Lotus]) No, but I can edit a message in Notepad and then

copy/paste into windows
(2-4,Kevin/sysop) For really long messages that go over one line, it is ... (2-4,Kevin/sysop) accepted practice to place an ellipsis at the end of ... (2-4,Kevin/sysop) each line as I am now doing. At the end, place a ... (2-4,Kevin/sysop) period or a "ga" (means go ahead) (2-4,Kevin/sysop) BE careful pasting in a message. Compuserve doesn't ... (2-4,Kevin/sysop) like people to upload stuff into a conference, so ... (2-4,Kevin/sysop) there is a three line limit. You will get a warning ... (2-4,Kevin/sysop) message that you are talking too fast otherwise. (2-3,Joe N. [Lotus]) OK
(2-1,Fran T [Lotus]) How can I finish a line before the other messages cut

(2-4,Kevin/sysop) You can't, Fran, that's why the chat mode is so ... (2-4,Kevin/sysop) valuable. Chat mode sort of saves up and spits a ... (2-4,Kevin/sysop) line or two at a time. (2-1,Fran T [Lotus]) I'll have to type fast! (2-3,Joe N. [Lotus]) How do I /SEND a message to only another person? (2-4,Kevin/sysop) To send a one line private message, you use /send ... (2-4,Kevin/sysop) jobid where the jobid you can see. Mine, for ... (2-4,Kevin/sysop) example, is 4
(2-3,Joe N. [Lotus]) You can also get the jobid from a /user (2-3,Joe N. [Lotus]) Mike is having problems with CIM. Don, has disconnected

(2-3,Joe N. [Lotus]) give him telephone assistance. ga (2-5,Mark V. [Lotus]) must be some sort of communications problem at his

(2-5,Mark V. [Lotus]) Kraley...that's the Mike that Don is calling... (2-4,Kevin/sysop) I see. Hope they get it straightened out. I don't ... (2-4,Kevin/sysop) have a copy of CIM yet, so I can't offer any ... (2-4,Kevin/sysop) assistance.
(2-2,Don B [Lotus]) Hi Guys and Gals
(2-4,Kevin/sysop) Do you all know the emoticons and abbreviations used? (2-2,Don B [Lotus]) No!!
(2-4,Kevin/sysop) Well, here's some.... (2-4,Kevin/sysop) BRB = Be Right Back
(2-4,Kevin/sysop) Rehi = Hi again, I got zapped by line noise and just ... (2-4,Kevin/sysop) made it back.
(2-4,Kevin/sysop) <g> = grin
(2-4,Kevin/sysop) <G> = big grin
(2-4,Kevin/sysop) <g,d&r> = grin, ducking and running (2-4,Kevin/sysop) ;-)
(2-4,Kevin/sysop) That's a smile (look at it sideways) (2-4,Kevin/sysop) Actually, that's a smile with a knowing wink (2-4,Kevin/sysop) :-) there's a plain smile (2-4,Kevin/sysop) :-( there's an unhappy customer (2-4,Kevin/sysop) FWIW - for what it's worth (2-4,Kevin/sysop) IMHO in my humble opinion (2-4,Kevin/sysop) How's that for starters? (2-2,Don B [Lotus]) GreaT!! Thanks!! I'll Pass it on!! (2-4,Kevin/sysop) Hello, John Paul, how are you tonight? (2-4,Kevin/sysop) Hello, Mr/Ms Flast!
(2-4,Kevin/sysop) Is that you, Bob or Lauren, behind "eyeon"? (2-4,Kevin/sysop) This is an informal conference, so just jump in (2-6,eyeon) We shortened our name to EyeOn for the conference - Bob & Lauren,

(2-4,Kevin/sysop) Great to have you both! (2-2,Don B [Lotus]) Hi Bob and Lauren!! How are you tonight! (2-1,John Paul) Hi Kevin - I really appreciated your help in speeding up

(2-4,Kevin/sysop) No problem. As you can see we have a number of ... (2-4,Kevin/sysop) Agenda experts, developers here, so if you have any ... (2-4,Kevin/sysop) questions don't be shy! (2-4,Kevin/sysop) John Paul, did you try to increase the size of the ... (2-4,Kevin/sysop) cache yet?
(2-3,Mark V. [Lotus]) John Paul, Bob, and Lauren (hi Lauren)...Don is our

(2-3,Mark V. [Lotus]) print expert, Joe is a memory/systems/TXT2STF guru, Fran

(2-3,Mark V. [Lotus]) our Doc expert.
(2-1,John Paul) Kevin - no I haven't had a chance yet to increase the cache (2-4,Kevin/sysop) For you performance experts out there, John Paul is ... (2-4,Kevin/sysop) trying to configure Agenda on a laptop, and is having ... (2-4,Kevin/sysop) some performance concerns (2-3,Mark V. [Lotus]) I helped a guy soup up a Compaq LTE at a client site

(2-3,Mark V. [Lotus]) what tricks did you guys use to enhance speed? (2-1,John Paul) I am using a 286 Travelmate 2000 by TI and am very new to the

world of DOS - so EMS, cache etc. is pretty confusing to me (2-4,Kevin/sysop) Mark, his system has about 256K of EMS memory, and he ... (2-4,Kevin/sysop) has a cache program. What is the tradeoff between ... (2-4,Kevin/sysop) allowing Agenda to use the EMS versus simply giving ... (2-4,Kevin/sysop) it all over to the disk cache. (2-4,Kevin/sysop) ga
(2-3,Mark V. [Lotus]) My understanding is that the favored strategy is to give

it all...
(2-3,Mark V. [Lotus]) to the EMS. The new product is significantly different

(2-3,Mark V. [Lotus]) 1.01 in this respect. <ga> (2-2,Don B [Lotus]) Hi Mike!! Glad you made it!!1 (2-4,Kevin/sysop) It would be interesting, John Paul, to try giving all ... (2-4,Kevin/sysop) the EMS to the disk cache, and then taking the cache ... (2-4,Kevin/sysop) out and giving it all to Agenda, to see what ... (2-4,Kevin/sysop) difference it makes. ga (2-9,Mike K [Lotus]) Hi everyone! I finally made it. Fortunately we don't do

data comm products
(2-4,Kevin/sysop) Rehi, Mike
(2-3,Mark V. [Lotus]) Late for the meeting, as usual (2-4,Kevin/sysop) Does that make sense, John? (2-1,John Paul) Yes Kevin it does - I'll give it a try (2-2,Don B [Lotus]) Kevin Mike missed some of the protocols for typing could

you rehash,
(2-2,Don B [Lotus]) Thanks <ga>
(2-4,Kevin/sysop) Sure, for multi line messages, end each line with an ... (2-4,Kevin/sysop) ellipsis like this, and end the final line with a ... (2-4,Kevin/sysop) period (full stop) or ga (means go ahead) (2-4,Kevin/sysop) ga
(2-1,John Paul) Also - how long should Agenda take once you type Agenda on the

command line - it seems like a long time before it starts (2-5,Joe N. [Lotus]) John, what make and version of EMS are you using (2-3,Mark V. [Lotus]) I have found it can vary considerably with the system,

John Paul...
(2-3,Mark V. [Lotus]) if it is terrifically long, you might try the /ovems3

argument on the...
(2-3,Mark V. [Lotus]) agenda command line. <ga> (2-1,John Paul) Joe - It came with the Travelmate 2000 by TI _ i'll look and

see if the name is in the book. GA (2-4,Kevin/sysop) Hello, Dennis, glad you could make it! (2-4,Kevin/sysop) Dennis, did you have any particular questions? (2-3,Mark V. [Lotus]) I understand the printing is a little slow (2-1,John Paul) How about some info on props for dates - for some reason it

seems confusing to me...
(2-1,John Paul) for instance what does it take to make "next Wednesday" appear

at the next...
(2-1,John Paul) Wednesday day - how should props be set? (2-9,Mike K [Lotus]) Say more, John Paul, what specifically do you mean? (2-3,Mark V. [Lotus]) "Wednesday" means the coming Wednesday... (2-3,Mark V. [Lotus]) "Next Wednesday" is the Wednesday following (2-3,Mark V. [Lotus]) According to the default properties, that is (2-1,John Paul) The EMS driver version 4.oj (release 1.32 ver 1.0a) by I.O.

Data Device
(2-5,Joe N. [Lotus]) John - have you tried starting Agenda with the /ovems3

(2-5,Joe N. [Lotus]) John - Does it take a long time to go from a view to the

category manager?
(2-1,John Paul) Joe - do I type ovems3 after Agenda - I hate to say it here but

I have worked on..
(2-1,John Paul) all models of MACs until the Travelmate and AGENDA - so I'm on

a steep...
(2-1,John Paul) learning curve. ga
(2-5,Joe N. [Lotus]) Try typing "agenda /ovems3" at the DOS prompt. (2-9,Mike K [Lotus]) More precisely, "This Wed" means the wed in the current

(2-9,Mike K [Lotus]) "Next Wed is the wed in the week after the current

(2-9,Mike K [Lotus]) "Wed" means the next wed that happens. ga (2-4,Kevin/sysop) Mike, is it true that "this wed" and "wed" mean the ... (2-4,Kevin/sysop) same thing when you are in Monday or Tuesday of the ... (2-4,Kevin/sysop) week, and different things when you are at Thursday ... (2-4,Kevin/sysop) or Friday of the week? (2-9,Mike K [Lotus]) That's right Kevin. Without a "this" or "next", "last",

etc. we ...
(2-9,Mike K [Lotus]) default into the future. (2-4,Kevin/sysop) That can be confusing sometimes (2-9,Mike K [Lotus]) I agree. English is a not very precise language. In

(2-9,Mike K [Lotus]) however, you usually are talking about events in the

future, unless...
(2-9,Mike K [Lotus]) they are specifically qualified. (2-1,John Paul) Are any books planned for version 2?. ga (2-9,Mike K [Lotus]) John Paul, I'm sure that Bob & Lauren will be glad to talk

(2-9,Mike K [Lotus]) books...
(2-9,Mike K [Lotus]) but the quick answer is that we will be seeing a few books

in a few
(2-9,Mike K [Lotus]) months. ga
(2-6,Bob & Lauren Flast) Very funny - there are at least three books that we

are aware of...
(2-6,Bob & Lauren Flast) ours of course, a new one by Campbell and one by

(2-6,Bob & Lauren Flast) Mary's will be out first, in the next month or so, and

tehe other two...
(2-6,Bob & Lauren Flast) by the end of the oryear or early next year. ga (2-1,John Paul) Bob & Lauren - what will each book focus on or address? ga (2-6,Bob & Lauren Flast) John Paul - We will distribute all worthwhile bnooks

on the subject...
(2-6,Bob & Lauren Flast) Mary's will be an updated version of her reference

(2-6,Bob & Lauren Flast) Ottensman's, we believe, will be an update of their

1.0 book...
(2-6,Bob & Lauren Flast) Ours, however, will be applications focused, picking

up where...
(2-6,Bob & Lauren Flast) QUICKSTART and the Starter Applications guides leave

off .ga
(2-1,John Paul) Sounds great - I subscribe to EyeOn - what will be featured in

coming issues? ga
(2-6,Bob & Lauren Flast) John Paul - the October issue will feature a dynamite

application for lawyers...
(2-6,Bob & Lauren Flast) and the integration of a spell checker with genda
(2-4,Kevin/sysop) I have a date question. (2-6,Bob & Lauren Flast) John Paul - needless to say a typing checker would be

useful now <grin> ga
(2-4,Kevin/sysop) I have my input date format set up DMY. (2-4,Kevin/sysop) If I enter a date like 3-2 meaning 3rd of Feb, I get ... (2-4,Kevin/sysop) a date in 1990 instead of 1991. Any thoughts? (2-9,Mike K [Lotus]) Hmm. That doesn't sound right. Now if I had a

multitasker here...
(2-9,Mike K [Lotus]) I could respond more intelligently... (2-4,Kevin/sysop) <gasp> you are not using Desqview? (2-3,Mark V. [Lotus]) Joe, can you check that out where you are? (2-9,Mike K [Lotus]) And of course we don't have our date guru here

(2-9,Mike K [Lotus]) I had so much trouble logging in tonight, I am keeping

things very
(2-9,Mike K [Lotus]) simple.
(2-4,Kevin/sysop) Oops, sorry, wrong question category! (2-4,Kevin/sysop) OK, then, why does it print so slowly? (2-2,Don B [Lotus]) What do you mean Slloowwllyy? (2-4,Kevin/sysop) I have an NEC P5XL printer, and it takes a while ... (2-4,Kevin/sysop) for things like horizontal lines to print. ga (2-4,Kevin/sysop) Are you using graphics mode for some of the page? (2-4,Kevin/sysop) Agenda 1 printed at full printer speed. Agenda 2 ... (2-4,Kevin/sysop) prints with significant pauses in the page output. (2-2,Don B [Lotus]) Does the formatting take a long time or thge printing? (2-4,Kevin/sysop) No, it's the printing I think. I am not doing a ... (2-4,Kevin/sysop) datebook or anything special, regular view. Whole ... (2-4,Kevin/sysop) database has three items in it. (2-2,Don B [Lotus]) Kevin, About the printing, When we print to the lines, we

(2-2,Don B [Lotus]) put the printer into graphics mode ... (2-2,Don B [Lotus]) also, if you need it a little faster, I believe there is a

(2-2,Don B [Lotus]) DRAFT font available fro 'SETUP' thay would increase ... (2-2,Don B [Lotus]) normal print through ga (2-4,Kevin/sysop) OK, Don, I thought that's what was happening.

(2-5,Joe N. [Lotus]) I tried out the date... (2-5,Joe N. [Lotus]) Setting global date settings from file properties... (2-5,Joe N. [Lotus]) to DDMMYY I then entered an item... (2-5,Joe N. [Lotus]) 3-2 is a date and got 02/03/91 which I believe is correct.

(2-3,Mark V. [Lotus]) Joe, on the date thing, have you changed the date input

(2-3,Mark V. [Lotus]) to DMY?
(2-5,Joe N. [Lotus]) I tried changing the input format and it still works -

(2-4,Kevin/sysop) Joe, sorry, imprecise problem report. Try 3 feb. (2-5,Joe N. [Lotus]) Hold on
(2-5,Joe N. [Lotus]) 3 feb still give correct date (2-4,Kevin/sysop) It doesn't on mine, Joe, just brought it up in ... (2-4,Kevin/sysop) another window. ga

(2-1,John Paul) Kevin should I turn EMS off at the utilities level or turn the

cache off or both? ga
(2-4,Kevin/sysop) John, leave EMS enabled on your system. Just ... (2-4,Kevin/sysop) increase the size of the CACHE and Agenda won't have ... (2-4,Kevin/sysop) any left to play with. Then decrease or eliminate ... (2-4,Kevin/sysop) the cache, so that Agenda gets all the EMS, and then ... (2-4,Kevin/sysop) compare the differences. (2-3,Mark V. [Lotus]) John Paul...leave the EMS driver up and running, take the

cache statement from the CONFIG.SYS and reboot (2-1,John Paul) So - I don't have to do anything with the customize menu? (2-1,John Paul) How should the cache be configured? Read only? Transfer size

24? ga
(2-4,Kevin/sysop) John Paul, what cache options do you have? (2-1,John Paul) Kevin - cache - memory type extended, ems and system...

     size of the cache option - read and write options - number of

(2-4,Kevin/sysop) John Paul, you probably ought to try with and without ... (2-4,Kevin/sysop) the /ovems3 parameter as well, when you do your ... (2-4,Kevin/sysop) tests.
(2-4,Kevin/sysop) Also, John Paul, I would leave the cache parameters ... (2-4,Kevin/sysop) alone. Obviously, you need to install for EMS rather ... (2-4,Kevin/sysop) than extended memory, but the transfer sizes won't ... (2-4,Kevin/sysop) make much difference when loaded into EMS memory. ... (2-4,Kevin/sysop) That is more a function of being loaded into extended ... (2-4,Kevin/sysop) memory. ga

(2-6,Bob & Lauren Flast) Mark - I heard of an interesting print problem

     today... a lady makes tables in a note and when she tries to
     print they won't come out the way she creates them...
     not matter how small they are, what font, etc, any
     ideas  - Lauren
(2-3,Mark V. [Lotus]) Lauren...after your referral I talked to her...the
     proportional fonts were what was throwing them. I worked out two
     workarounds either swith to "LinePrinter" font (which stacks like on
     a screen) or more liberal use of Tab keys, which are more absolute
     wrt position
(2-9,Mike K [Lotus]) OK.  Lauren, I assume your lady was using tabs to align
     the columns There are several issues with tabs and agenda print...
     first, if there are markers displayed, since they don't
     really take up space in the printed output, but DO take up space in
     the note display, things can get misaligned.  Thus if there are
     markers around, turn them off in Utilities Customize...
     Second, of course, you need to use a mono-spaced font if
     you are to have any luck at all with tabs with our hybrid of
     character mode and proportional printout...
     Third, and most subtle, is that tabs are figured as
     fractions of a virtual page, while characters have width dependent on
     fonts.  This makes translation from the character based world
     sometimes give strange results.  To get absolute fidelity, margins
     should be zero (left and right), and the font should be small
     enough to have at least 80 characters across. ga

(2-2,Don B [Lotus]) Gee, I couldn't have said it better my self. (2-3,Mark V. [Lotus]) I liked my answer better (2-6,Bob & Lauren Flast) Mike - impressive explanation, I got most of it (2-6,Bob & Lauren Flast) Mark - Did your answer solve Patty's problem? (2-3,Mark V. [Lotus]) Yes...although now I'm frankly amazed that it did... (2-3,Mark V. [Lotus]) she is doing a big report that merges data organization

and WP...Agenda 2.0 is really helping her out. (2-6,Bob & Lauren Flast) Mike - I'm unclear about a virtual page and where it

is you set the margins, you mean the print margins

(2-3,Mark V. [Lotus]) Hi Dennis, what's up? (2-10,Dennis Laudermilch) I've come around to using a small amount of EMS, and

     the speed improvement was  substantial.  Prior to that I had
     used a large disk cache and put the ag_tmp file in a ram disk.  My hard
     disk was almost never being touched.  So it seems almost all was in
     memory.  Why is EMS so much faster than this apporach.

(2-5,Joe N. [Lotus]) OK, I'm ready now to answer Dennis's question... (2-4,Kevin/sysop) OK, Joe, go for it.
(2-5,Joe N. [Lotus]) Dennis asked why he is runing better with a small amount

of ems than when he was using a large disk cache. (2-4,Kevin/sysop) Dennis is having some comm troubles, go ahead Joe (2-4,Kevin/sysop) Dennis is watching even though he is having trouble ... (2-4,Kevin/sysop) sending
(2-5,Joe N. [Lotus]) Well, Agenda can handle large databases, but has a

     small amount of memory to process it in without expanded
     memory. This causes a lot of swapping to disk which is slow...
     Agenda can use expanded memory almost as efficiently
     as conventional memory with significantly less swapping...
     In a nutshell, Agenda likes EMS much better than
     disks and/or disk caches. ga.

(2-4,Kevin/sysop) Thanks, Joe, does that mean in general it is better ... (2-4,Kevin/sysop) to give Agenda the EMS rather than a disk cache? (2-5,Joe N. [Lotus]) Definately!

(2-3,Mark V. [Lotus]) Bob & Lauren...let's hear about your legal app...we are

getting ready to release a couple of our own. (2-6,Bob & Lauren Flast) Mark - the legal app addresses case management,

     physical files and hours billing...
     I've worked with a few lawyers on it to get their
     ideas and frankly I think it's neat
(2-3,Mark V. [Lotus]) Your apps generally are. We are trying Practice
     management and a Trial Notebook for litigation.

(2-6,Bob & Lauren Flast) With 1.0 there was a 5000 limit on number of

     items+categories+links for practical good performance,
     is it the same with 2.0

(2-4,Kevin/sysop) Who wants to tackle the question of 5000 links ... (2-4,Kevin/sysop) limit?
(2-5,Joe N. [Lotus]) I know what links are from an internal programming point

     of view, are these what you mean???
     What is the link you are referring to?
(2-3,Mark V. [Lotus]) Joe, I think the question is how many item/category
     connections can 2.0 reasonably manage?

(2-2,Don B [Lotus]) Theres a question about MAX items and catragories (2-6,Bob & Lauren Flast) Joe, when I say links I mean the conections between

categories and items
(2-9,Mike K [Lotus]) Re practical limits on links, the theoretical limits are

     the same that is 64K "objects" and 64K "links", but in Agenda 2 the
     typical item has at least three links: section head, Entry, and
     Done. In Agenda 1.0, the Entry and Done were "inside" the item
     and hence didn't use up the links.  However, this is really only
     relevant for the VERY extreme user (ie. QA person)...
     Practical limits on file size are very hard to determine
     by external (ie. user visible) functions.  Also we are now
     much more sensitive to the presence of EMS - that can make a
     world of difference for larger files.  Did I successfully not
     answer the question?
(2-6,Bob & Lauren Flast) Mike - what about a database with 200 categories and
     30,000 items
(2-6,Bob & Lauren Flast) Mike - If I know that an averagggggge item has 120
     cats is that helpful
(2-9,Mike K [Lotus]) Lots of items is much less bad than lots of categories.
     In general, if there is enough memory (DOS plus EMS) to get the whole
     cat mgr and all of its ancillary information into memory at once,
     most Agenda operations go much more smoothly...
     but 30000 items, if each has an entry and when date - now
     we're bumping up against the 64K limit.

(2-4,Kevin/sysop) Joe, I would like to explore that date problem a bit ... (2-4,Kevin/sysop) more when you get a moment. (2-5,Joe N. [Lotus]) Kevin, after this, could you re-state the date


(2-4,Kevin/sysop) Marcus, do you have any specific questions? (2-11,Marcus) I have yet to find an EMS Mgr for (2-11,Marcus) my 286 that works & would like some help.

(2-4,Kevin/sysop) Bill, do you have a specific question? (2-13,-bill) Mark V.-What is internal error 2012? (2-3,Mark V. [Lotus]) A very bad thing. When does it occur? (2-13,-bill) It has occurred when I tried to create a new view using the main

catergory and sorting items by a date category? (2-2,Don B [Lotus]) -bill, when do you get the error? (2-2,Don B [Lotus]) -bill, where and how was the file created? (2-13,-bill) The file was created under Version 2. (2-13,-bill) It consisted of about 300 items (summaries of documents). (2-5,Joe N. [Lotus]) Bill, is this a reproducable problem (ie. every time) (2-13,-bill) Yes
(2-2,Don B [Lotus]) -bill, do you get the DAMGD flag, and if so, when you quit

then does it return ga
(2-3,Mark V. [Lotus]) I do that sort lots with Show Views...No problems (2-3,Mark V. [Lotus]) The flag is DMGD, upper right corner of screen (2-13,-bill) did not check to see if there was a damaged file flag

<embarrassed grin>
(2-5,Joe N. [Lotus]) Could you give a more detailed explaination of how... (2-5,Joe N. [Lotus]) to reproduce it from a new database? (2-2,Don B [Lotus]) -bill, thats ok! Like Joe asked, is it easily

(2-11,Marcus) I had same error 2 days ago adding an item. No apparent

(2-2,Don B [Lotus]) - Marcus, wherre you in one of the Apps or a new file? (2-3,Mark V. [Lotus]) Our <embarrassed grin> if it DMGD. How complex is the

     DB, that is, is it feasible to transfer items to a clean DB
     and retry?

(2-13,-bill) I activated view manager and hit insert to create a new view. (2-13,-bill) I selected Main as the section. I then set the view the sort the

items in ascending order based on the date category. (2-5,Joe N. [Lotus]) Are you using EMS and if so, which one? (2-10,Peter With[Toronto]) thx, just watching for now (2-3,Mark V. [Lotus]) bill...sorting by which date? (2-13,-bill) No, I am not using EMS. I was able to delete view without

damaging data.
(2-2,Don B [Lotus]) - Thats weird?
(2-13,-bill) The date category was a new one containing the date of the

(2-11,Marcus) No EMS, in my own AG file (time billing), in daily use since 2.0

(2-3,Mark V. [Lotus]) Bill - are documents in notes? Internal or external? (2-2,Don B [Lotus]) - Marcus, and you did say you get 2012's with no apparent

(2-5,Joe N. [Lotus]) Hold on, I'm checking it out. (2-13,-bill) The documents themselves are not in the datebase. Only

(2-13,-bill) I have various categories and child categories for recipient,

sender & issue.
(2-11,Marcus) Yes, I have use this file (280K) many time

problems(apart from speed <g>).
(2-5,Joe N. [Lotus]) I have a QA person with me, and we can not reproduce the


(2-4,Kevin/sysop) Joe, Marcus has posted a question about not being ... (2-4,Kevin/sysop) able to find a suitable EMS manager. I see that ... (2-4,Kevin/sysop) Bill's system also does not use EMS. Could that be a ... (2-4,Kevin/sysop) common element in the problem? (2-5,Joe N. [Lotus]) I don't believe that this is related to 2012 errors. (2-4,Kevin/sysop) Would it help if he sent you a file to look at? (2-2,Don B [Lotus]) -bill, marcus, any conditions or actions setup? (2-5,Joe N. [Lotus]) Yes, Yes, Yes!
(2-3,Mark V. [Lotus]) Bill - How about trying this. File Transfer Export items

     from the current application (specify All items). Then File
     Transfer Import into a new Agenda file. The STF file should
     re-establish the categories. This way you can see if it's the DB or an
     Agenda process behind the bug.
(2-11,Marcus) I have recieved the 2012 error perhaps 3 times...always adding
     long items...includes C & A's...always in Datebook views...
(2-13,-bill) Don, No conditions or actions to speak of.  It is a pretty
     rudimentary database.  However, I also had a problem on the same database in
     sorting child categories of one parent.  Each time I tried, the system
     locked up.

(2-4,Kevin/sysop) Bill, how big is the database in bytes? (2-13,-bill) 200k
(2-4,Kevin/sysop) If you could ARC or ZIP it, and upload it to the ... (2-4,Kevin/sysop) AGENDA section on the forum, I could send it to Mark ... (2-4,Kevin/sysop) and he could pass it along to Joe. If all ... (2-4,Kevin/sysop) intermediaries are willing, that is. (2-4,Kevin/sysop) Upload time is free anyway, so it wouldn't cost you a ... (2-4,Kevin/sysop) lot to do that.
(2-13,-bill) I would be glad to.
(2-3,Mark V. [Lotus]) Fine with me!
(2-2,Don B [Lotus]) kevin, I think that's a good idea! (2-4,Kevin/sysop) OK. Mark, when I get the file I will not make it ... (2-4,Kevin/sysop) public, I will grab it and send it to you as a binary ... (2-4,Kevin/sysop) EPLEX. Unless Bill just wants to send it to you ... (2-4,Kevin/sysop) directly as a binary eplex. (2-3,Mark V. [Lotus]) Anything works for me.. (2-13,-bill) Kevin, I could just send it to Mark. I will just have to figure

     out how to do a binary e-plex.  Guess I have to crack the manual for

(2-4,Kevin/sysop) Bill, just name the file in the subject line when you ... (2-4,Kevin/sysop) are going to write a message to eplex. TAPCIS will ... (2-4,Kevin/sysop) recognise the period in the file name, and then bring ... (2-4,Kevin/sysop) up a prompt. You hit PageUp, and specify the full ... (2-4,Kevin/sysop) pathname.

(2-4,Kevin/sysop) Marcus had a question on finding a good EMS manager ... (2-4,Kevin/sysop) for his 286 system. Are we ready to address that ... (2-4,Kevin/sysop) now?
(2-5,Joe N. [Lotus]) I got it!
(2-5,Joe N. [Lotus]) You can not put an EMS manager on a 286 to turn extended

     memory into expanded.  However, If you have or would like to
     purchase an expanded/extended memory board, then you can do

(2-4,Kevin/sysop) Joe, are you saying an EMS emulator won't work? (2-3,Mark V. [Lotus]) Well Joe, if that's true, how do Compaq manage their

SETUPs to let you split among extended and expanded? (2-5,Joe N. [Lotus]) You might want to try an Intel AboveBoard which can... (2-5,Joe N. [Lotus]) be configured as expanded and/or extended... (2-5,Joe N. [Lotus]) Yes, an emulator will not work on an 80286. Sorry. (2-4,Kevin/sysop) I know that emulators will work with 286 machines, ... (2-4,Kevin/sysop) but that they are a bit slow. Are you saying that ... (2-4,Kevin/sysop) Agenda just won't work with an emulator? (2-4,Kevin/sysop) Marcus, do you already have an EMS board? (2-4,Kevin/sysop) Joe, is it the loss of 80K of conventional memory ... (2-4,Kevin/sysop) with an emulator that makes it impractical for ... (2-4,Kevin/sysop) Agenda?
(2-11,Marcus) Joe, I increased system board memory to 2 Mb. Both EXM and Above

Disc are supposed to emulate EMS 4.0. No <separate> EMS board. (2-5,Joe N. [Lotus]) yes, you can waste conventional memory and swap with a

     80286, but I don't really consider the loss of conventional
     memory to be worthwhile.  I don't really believe in those
     programs that use your hard disk as EMS either.

(2-4,Kevin/sysop) In Marcus' case, then you would recommend he ... (2-4,Kevin/sysop) configure with an extended memory disk cache, and ... (2-4,Kevin/sysop) forego the LIMulator? (2-5,Joe N. [Lotus]) Well...
(2-5,Joe N. [Lotus]) Yes.
(2-4,Kevin/sysop) Marcus, what kind of a 286 do you have? (2-4,Kevin/sysop) Oh, and what kind of a video card? (2-11,Marcus) Kevin, I am using 640K of RAM disk, copy my AG file there, set

     AGTMP and AGWRK to D: (RAMDisc), and set up 768K Disc Cache..almost no
     disc accesses.
(2-5,Joe N. [Lotus]) Marcus, you'll probably want to use the /ovems3 switch if
     you do decide to use a Limulator.
(2-11,Marcus) Kevin, it's a Leading Technology (cost $575 <g>), VGA color
(2-3,Mark V. [Lotus]) Joe...shouldn't Marcus lose the RAMdisk and the cache?
     I'll bet that's just in the way.
(2-5,Joe N. [Lotus]) Limulators are extremely slow because they copy
     memory instead of swaping pages.

(2-4,Kevin/sysop) Marcus, see if you have a Chips&Technology chipset (2-4,Kevin/sysop) If you do, and have a CGA, Herc, or EGA/VGA not in ... (2-4,Kevin/sysop) graphics mode, you may be able to use QRAM or ... (2-4,Kevin/sysop) equivalent, which would get you an additional 64K of ... (2-4,Kevin/sysop) conventional memory. That would speed up Agenda ... (2-4,Kevin/sysop) quite a bit, I bet.
(2-5,Joe N. [Lotus]) I agree with Kevin. (2-11,Marcus) Kevin, yes it's C&T...RAM disc and Cache were last resort after

EMS caused Agenda lockups...
(2-4,Kevin/sysop) Well, you could try EMS again with the /ovems3 ... (2-4,Kevin/sysop) switch, but I bet you aren't going to be happy with ... (2-4,Kevin/sysop) it.

(2-4,Kevin/sysop) Are we ready for Duffy? He has lots of questions, ... (2-4,Kevin/sysop) so he says!

(2-8,Fran T [Lotus]) No I'm not asleep but there's not much I can answer. Any

doc feedback from anyone?
(2-4,Kevin/sysop) Yeah, Fran, I have a doc comment, but I'll give ... (2-4,Kevin/sysop) Duffy a shot first!
(2-6,Duffy) Some questions, some wishes, some problems (very few). Wish first. (2-6,Duffy) I've got lots of stuff in a view and some general idea of how I

     want it sequenced: say by date, priority, and type of work.  Then I want to
     be able to move stuff around, one item maybe a little more
     important than another, and have those moves stick.  I probably already
     have too many sort keys.  Any way to do this?

(2-3,Mark V. [Lotus]) Let me answer that. (2-3,Mark V. [Lotus]) I would set up sections by type of work, then set up

     item sorting by date (primary) and priority (secondary). After
     a bunch of data entry (and sorting) modify View properties to turn
     OFF the sorting and move the items to customize.
(2-3,Mark V. [Lotus]) (I can't test this...would the order change when the sort
     properties were taken off?)
(2-1,Mike K [Lotus]) the basic problem is that you can't have it both
     ways. Either the item order is determined by sorting, or it is
     determined by the order they were assigned and later moved around by
     item reposition.   When you turn off sorting, the items return
     to the "manual" order. ga

(2-6,Duffy) I do want it both ways, the sort order as (2-6,Duffy) a suggestion and then my specific tweaking. (2-6,Duffy) If there were more sort keys, then I could (2-6,Duffy) have a column with some numbers added to the (2-6,Duffy) sort and do it that way. Sometimes I just (2-6,Duffy) make more caregories for the type of work and (2-6,Duffy) move the items between them. There is so much (2-6,Duffy) flexibility I have come to assume that you can (2-6,Duffy) always find a way to do something. (2-1,Mike K [Lotus]) yes, i can see your point. It would be nice to have a

     feature that said "take the current sorted order and rearrange the
     "manual". You could try introducing a couple alternative sorting
     schema order to match it.  I'll enter that in my sugggestions
     list.  tnx.

(2-3,Mark V. [Lotus]) and present each in a different view. (2-4,Kevin/sysop) Duffy, what if you played with the priorities some? (2-4,Kevin/sysop) You could make some subcategories under priority, and ... (2-4,Kevin/sysop) set the priority column to show parent only, so that ... (2-4,Kevin/sysop) it would show H, or whatever, but you could assign to ... (2-4,Kevin/sysop) the subpriorities in order to rearrange items. ga

(2-6,Duffy) ga...go ahead. Now I understand. Here is another wish... (2-6,Duffy) I often build fancy structures of subordinate categories (2-6,Duffy) to show the structure of tasks or ideas. Then I put the (2-6,Duffy) items that really contain what has to be done under the (2-6,Duffy) right headings. It would be great to have views be able (2-6,Duffy) to indent, at least when printing, so that you could see (2-6,Duffy) the hierarchy. I've though of putting some punctuation (2-6,Duffy) and the the appropriate number of spaces, but as stuff (2-6,Duffy) gets moved around, it then has to be redone. ga. (2-4,Kevin/sysop) AHA! The outlining request from version 1 reappears (2-1,Mike K [Lotus]) Yes, there are outlining fans everywhere! (i'm one

     too). We have spent considerable thought on how to merge the
     outlining paradigm with Agenda.  It's not easy.  The basic problem
     comes from Agenda's fundamental difference between items and
     categories. When you have "sub-heads" - are those items or cats?...
(2-1,Mike K [Lotus]) One can think about combining these into "things", but
     that then leads into many other tangles. I haven't given up on this
     yet but I can't say that I have a good answer yet.
(2-3,Mark V. [Lotus]) Hi Don...Mike just signed you up to get outlining into

(2-6,Duffy) You can't combine categories and items, that would (2-6,Duffy) destroy the hard won but tenuous distinction that makes (2-6,Duffy) the whole thing work for me. How about a very simple (2-6,Duffy) approach: a way to format section heads so that on (2-6,Duffy) screen and for printing, the indent x spaces for each (2-6,Duffy) parent. Then for printing, let the items indent to the (2-6,Duffy) same point as the last section head. That could be combined (2-6,Duffy) with another pet peeve: making notes line up with thier (2-6,Duffy) items when there are columns to the left. ga (2-1,Mike K [Lotus]) OK, but what about items which are assigned to the

     intermediate sub-heads? do you display them or not?  Or do you add more
     complex controls to view/section props to figure that out.

(2-6,Duffy) Hey, if they are assigned to that category, that is where (2-6,Duffy) they should print. Okay, maybe you can have the (2-6,Duffy) equivalent of hide inherited, but I don't think I would (2-6,Duffy) personnaly find that useful. What about the other, is (2-6,Duffy) it possible to print an item with colums to the left and (2-6,Duffy) have the note line up with the start of the item? ga (2-4,Kevin/sysop) Mike, why not add an outline view type? It would ... (2-4,Kevin/sysop) have only one section head, all the subs would be ... (2-4,Kevin/sysop) subheads, and you could collapse/expand as in cat ... (2-4,Kevin/sysop) man?
(2-6,Duffy) I like that, sometimes I wish I could see the items from the (2-6,Duffy) categoury manager.
(2-1,Mike K [Lotus]) would the subheads in the outline view be categories or

items? if cats, then that's the cat mgr. (2-6,Duffy) Categories.
(2-6,Duffy) But then you see the items under each

(2-2,Don B [Lotus]) I';m back again, whats up?? (2-4,Kevin/sysop) Duffy has a print question (2-4,Kevin/sysop) Want to restate, Duffy? (2-2,Don B [Lotus]) Shoot!
(2-3,Mark V. [Lotus]) Don...a printing question...any way to line up notes

under items if columns to the left? (2-2,Don B [Lotus]) You should be able to specify a larger 'indent note' #.. (2-2,Don B [Lotus]) Have you tried that? (2-6,Duffy) No, I could do that and save it as a format attached to (2-6,Duffy) the particular view. That sounds like the answer, thanks. (2-2,Don B [Lotus]) Another one solved with N.P.S (named print settings)! (2-4,Kevin/sysop) That's a great feature, Don. Borrow that from 1-2-3? ... (2-4,Kevin/sysop) <g>
(2-2,Don B [Lotus]) Stole that one from a friend. :-)

(2-11,Marcus) Kevin, I have a question about losing columns when browsing in (2-11,Marcus) a Datebook view.
(2-3,Mark V. [Lotus]) Marcus, what's the scenario? (2-11,Marcus) Mark, Month view by day, Alt-B, left arrow, bingo! <g> (2-3,Mark V. [Lotus]) What columns are lost, Marcus? (2-11,Marcus) Mark, all except When Date & item itself... (2-3,Mark V. [Lotus]) Joe, can you check out Marcus's problem. I have

     successfully browsed with custom columns in a single section of a

(2-5,Joe N. [Lotus]) Sorry, I stepped away from the terminal... (2-5,Joe N. [Lotus]) What's up?
(2-3,Mark V. [Lotus]) Marcus is losing columns when he browses a datebook

view everything but item & when.
(2-11,Marcus) Mark & Joe, when I changed the Month View from "by Day" to "by

(2-11,Marcus) the problem went away. Maybe related to greater number (2-11,Marcus) Sections in a View?
(2-5,Joe N. [Lotus]) Sorry, but datebook views get rebuilt while browzing... (2-5,Joe N. [Lotus]) and you will lose other columns. (2-3,Mark V. [Lotus]) I have had this un-asked for reset happen if I change

     View properties and ENTER. I usually use Month and Week datebooks, and
     browsing doesn't rebuild.

(2-11,Marcus) Joe, this doesn't happen with other Datebook Views I use. (2-11,Marcus) I don't understand....
(2-5,Joe N. [Lotus]) Give me a minute to do a little more checking. (2-5,Joe N. [Lotus]) I'm back
(2-5,Joe N. [Lotus]) Marcus, I only see the problem during the rebuild (change

week to day or day to week)...
(2-5,Joe N. [Lotus]) I don't see it in plain browze. I don't know all the

(2-5,Joe N. [Lotus]) but we are aware of this and are looking into it.. (2-5,Joe N. [Lotus]) We appreciate your input. (2-11,Marcus) Joe, thanks for trying!

(2-6,Duffy) In the mean time, Don you seem to be the print guru, when (2-6,Duffy) I have a little column, a couple of characters wide, I see (2-6,Duffy) all of them on the screen, but come up one short when I print. (2-3,Mark V. [Lotus]) Don...what do you think? Is this a print driver thing? (2-4,Kevin/sysop) Don says he thinks the problem is with the margin ... (2-4,Kevin/sysop) formatting and the font size (2-2,Don B [Lotus]) No not really, It has to do with margin formatting and font

size, I believe?
(2-6,Duffy) It is 100% consistent. If there are 5 columns in a view, (2-6,Duffy) all five get shorted one space when printing. I have figured (2-6,Duffy) it is the dot before each category. It gets a free ride on the (2-6,Duffy) screen and the category gets the full width of the column. When (2-6,Duffy) printing, the dot gets counted by the print driver as a

(2-4,Kevin/sysop) Is there any way to kill the dot when printing? (2-2,Don B [Lotus]) Kevin, No the Tick is there to stay, sorry! (2-4,Kevin/sysop) Hmmm....tick=parasite...I see the connection! <g> (2-3,Mark V. [Lotus]) Everyone's a critic! <g> (2-2,Don B [Lotus]) Duffy, your partly correct, some of the space is the dot

(2-6,Duffy) Actually, it happens in wide columns too. Basically you loose (2-6,Duffy) a character from the defined column width. (2-10,Mike K [Lotus]) sorry, i've had modem problems. I think the question was

about losing chars in narrow columns. yes? (2-4,Kevin/sysop) Yes
(2-10,Mike K [Lotus]) the issue here is another one about translating from char

mode to the proportional font world... (2-10,Mike K [Lotus]) when we map into the actual width of the characters as

     output and when we factor down the column widths to fit within
     the margins the width of columns as measured in inches (or
     thousandths of an inch) doesn't map into character positions...
(2-10,Mike K [Lotus]) when you don't have wysiwyg display, then there is always
     this kind of problem.   that's why we have preview :-)

(2-4,Kevin/sysop) Mike, why don't you calculate columns using em and ... (2-4,Kevin/sysop) then you won't have this problem. (2-6,Duffy) I'm not sure I understand. Say I have a column, 10 (2-6,Duffy) characters on the screen. I get all 10 plus the tick. (2-6,Duffy) When I print, the 10 characters presumably translates to (2-6,Duffy) a 1" wide column on the printer. 1.1" if you leave room (2-6,Duffy) for the tick. If I make the margins wide, nothing should (2-6,Duffy) get scrunched and I should see 10 plus the tick. ga (2-10,Mike K [Lotus]) the tick is a red herring ( i won't follow that one

     up...)...for views that fit on a screen width, the column widths
     in characters are taken as fractions of an 80 character page width -
     so, for your 10 column example (this ignores ticks, gutters
     between columns etc., this maps into 1/8 of the page width.  Now in the
     printer world, we take the paper width, e.g. 8.5 in., subtract
     margins e.g. 1 in. each side = 6.5 in, divide by 8 = .8 in.  This
     is the physical width of the column.  Now we take whatever
     font size you've chosen, and lay out the actual character widths -
     in a proportional font, this obviously is also dependent on
     the actual characters.  Now there's nothing that says that 10
     characters will fit in the .8 in. right?  We've jiggered things so that
     MOST times with more or less default settings, for the common page
     sizes and margins, then mostly it will work out - but there's no
     way to guarantee it for variable fonts and printers.  Changing
     to a smaller font should help the problem...
(2-10,Mike K [Lotus]) you don't see this as much with items, since we wrap them
     - they of course wrap at different spots than on the char
     display -  but with cats, we truncate them, so it is more obvious.

(2-4,Kevin/sysop) Thanks for that excellent explanation, Mike. (2-6,Duffy) Now I understand. It makes perfect sense. I have some (2-6,Duffy) smaller fonts that I'll try. Or maybe different margins. (2-6,Duffy) Thanks
(2-10,Mike K [Lotus]) glad to help. good luck! (2-4,Kevin/sysop) DUFFY! Surely that's not all your questions! I know, ... (2-4,Kevin/sysop) I know, don't call you Shirley. (2-6,Duffy) Just thought the Lotus types might want to talk among (2-6,Duffy) themselves. I guess not. Here is an easy one. How do I (2-6,Duffy) get the cute little note symbol from the screen to print (2-6,Duffy) on my LaserJet II. I had it in version 1 but havent seen (2-6,Duffy) a way to replicate it in 2.0. ga (2-2,Don B [Lotus]) Mike didn't we x-late that one? (2-10,Mike K [Lotus]) sigh. I can't recall how this works. I do remember

     looking high and low to reproduce it in a PostScript font - for our
     own doc ended up writing some custom postscript to do it...

(2-10,Mike K [Lotus]) what HP cartridge are you using? (2-2,Don B [Lotus]) Mike, don't we do it in the fallbacks? (2-6,Duffy) The only cartridge I have is a postscript emulator. All (2-6,Duffy) of my fonts are soft.
(2-10,Mike K [Lotus]) Oh, I remember. we don't output the note symbol. In the

     complicated mapping of all the various symbols that can go before an
     item (dependent, alarm, note, file note, marked, etc.) we
     decided that since so few printers supported the musical notes,
     that they would mostly get turned into something
(2-10,Mike K [Lotus]) Hence, even if there's a note or file note, we output the

(2-6,Duffy) I thought everyone had a laserjet. (2-10,Mike K [Lotus]) well, almost everyone :-)

(2-6,Duffy) Any way to do custom mapping? I used to replace (2-6,Duffy) the bullet with left and right square brackets under (2-6,Duffy) version 1 (to take a check mark). (2-2,Don B [Lotus]) Sorry Duffy!
(2-10,Mike K [Lotus]) One regret is that we did not continue of the (few) good

     features of Agenda 1 printing, namely the easy customization of
     character mapping.  ah well.

(2-4,Kevin/sysop) I have a question! <to give Duffy a break> (2-4,Kevin/sysop) Is it true that Manuscript print drivers work with ... (2-4,Kevin/sysop) Agenda/2?
(2-4,Kevin/sysop) One person on the forum claims they do by simply ... (2-4,Kevin/sysop) renaming them.
(2-2,Don B [Lotus]) Kevin, THis is not a good Idea... (2-2,Don B [Lotus]) While you might get some of the drivers to work

     correctly there are enough differences to cause various
     problems such as print hangs, loss of output and even Computer
(2-2,Don B [Lotus]) I won't recommend it. (if you do, at your own risk).

(2-4,Kevin/sysop) This guy was desperate for an LJ-III driver, I think (2-2,Don B [Lotus]) Well, the only HP-III driver for manuscript that i ... (2-2,Don B [Lotus]) know of was only released as a pre-beta version.

(2-4,Kevin/sysop) Duffy? Any more?
(2-6,Duffy) Just one quick plea before bed time. Its been discussed (2-6,Duffy) on the forum. Doublly repeating dates "every second (2-6,Duffy) thursday of every month". I must have 20 like this. ga (2-2,Don B [Lotus]) Who Want's this one?? (2-4,Kevin/sysop) Just about everybody in the whole world! (2-4,Kevin/sysop) Rotary Club meeting fourth Wednesday of every month (2-2,Don B [Lotus]) Kevin, do you want an official answer or what? :-) (2-10,Mike K [Lotus]) wait a minute, do you mean the 2nd thursday of every

month? or every 2nd thursday? ie. every other thursday. (2-4,Kevin/sysop) Nope
(2-4,Kevin/sysop) Staff meeting second tue of every month (2-4,Kevin/sysop) Staff meeting every (second tue of the month) (2-4,Kevin/sysop) whatever syntax that will work, we need something! (2-6,Duffy) 2nd thursday of every month. It can do every second (2-6,Duffy) thursday (ie, every other thursday). (2-4,Kevin/sysop) I won't ask for the first tuesday after the first ... (2-4,Kevin/sysop) monday in November (election day) (2-6,Duffy) But it can do the first monday in october (start of the (2-6,Duffy) Supreme Court term)
(2-10,Mike K [Lotus]) and we don't do Easter! (2-10,Mike K [Lotus]) I believe that "the 2nd thursday of every month" should

do that.
(2-6,Duffy) Sorry, the second thursday of every month gives (2-6,Duffy) unpredictable results. All sorts of strange stuff (2-4,Kevin/sysop) It "looks" like it works, but it doesn't.

(2-10,Mike K [Lotus]) OK, I was sure we'd get to this before now, but perhaps

     we should just mention this in closing...
     we do have a maintainance update to Agenda 2.0 in final
     stages of production as we speak/type.  We will be shipping this to
     all registered users in the next few weeks - so make sure we
     have your registration card - if not, mail to Mark V.....
(2-10,Mike K [Lotus]) This update will improve performance in several areas,
     including datebooks, but also help in many other circumstances
     around the product. we have also made many date expressions
     parse and be interpreted better - including the forms we were
     just discussing. remember, you heard it first, right here.

(2-4,Kevin/sysop) Mike, will you permit Mark to post a public message ... (2-4,Kevin/sysop) to that effect on the forum message board? And also, ... (2-4,Kevin/sysop) could you create a file listing the bugs that were ... (2-4,Kevin/sysop) squashed that we can upload to our library here? (2-6,Duffy) Worth staying up for. Good news, and a tip of the (2-6,Duffy) hat for being ready to do a maintenance release. (2-3,Mark V. [Lotus]) Kevin ... I will summarize Mike's announcement for

(2-10,Mike K [Lotus]) We'll compose a suitable message tomorrow, OK? As far as

     upload there are a couple of issues we should research before we
     can mention it more widely.  I'd very much like to do it if
     we can.

(2-4,Kevin/sysop) OK, keep it in mind, the user base certainly would (2-4,Kevin/sysop) appreciate it.

(2-4,Kevin/sysop) Oh, don't close! I haven't asked Joe my question yet (2-5,Joe N. [Lotus]) Kevin, did you have a question for me? (2-4,Kevin/sysop) Yes, Joe.
(2-4,Kevin/sysop) Joe, further to our conversation earlier about ... (2-4,Kevin/sysop) mis-dates....
(2-4,Kevin/sysop) Here's the scenario.... (2-4,Kevin/sysop) I open a pristine (dare I say virgin) PLANNER. I go ... (2-4,Kevin/sysop) to File Props and set the display default to DDMMYY ... (2-4,Kevin/sysop) and the input to DMY, separator - and 24 hours. (2-4,Kevin/sysop) I then create a view called "test dates" that has ... (2-4,Kevin/sysop) Tasks as its section head. ALT-R to create a When ... (2-4,Kevin/sysop) date column. So far so good? (2-5,Joe N. [Lotus]) Let me take a look. can anyone else help out in the mean

(2-10,Mike K [Lotus]) I'll take the question. keep going. (2-4,Kevin/sysop) OK, now I enter the following item.... (2-4,Kevin/sysop) "Do this on 3 feb"
(2-4,Kevin/sysop) I get as a WHEN date, 03/02/90 (2-4,Kevin/sysop) Not 91, as I should get. (2-4,Kevin/sysop) I have Agenda up in another DV window, so am trying ... (2-4,Kevin/sysop) it as we chat.
(2-10,Mike K [Lotus]) ah...I understand. I do think this is something we have

     fixed in the maintenance release.  Joe is no doubt running this
     on his machine, but of course Kevin has vanilla 2.0.
(2-10,Mike K [Lotus]) I don't recall this exact problem, but I know that we
     fixed some other things which are very much like this.

(2-4,Kevin/sysop) OK, that will satisfy me for now. I'll await the ... (2-4,Kevin/sysop) maintenance release with bated breath! (2-5,Joe N. [Lotus]) I just finished testing it out (2-5,Joe N. [Lotus]) I tried it on Agenda 2.0 before fix (2-5,Joe N. [Lotus]) Yup, I got the same bug (2-4,Kevin/sysop) So, it is fixed?
(2-5,Joe N. [Lotus]) Give me another minute to test in the update (2-5,Joe N. [Lotus]) I'm not running the very latest, it may still be a

(2-5,Joe N. [Lotus]) I will have someone look into it further... (2-5,Joe N. [Lotus]) Sorry for the long delays... (2-4,Kevin/sysop) No problem, glad to have you here to check up on it.

(2-10,Mike K [Lotus]) Kevin, can we wind this up now? I'm pretty wiped too. (2-4,Kevin/sysop) I think we can safely declare victory and withdraw! (2-10,Mike K [Lotus]) Great. Kevin, I do want to thank you for hosting this

     and to everyone else who's been here too.  It's great to see all
     this interest in Agenda.  Please don't hesitate to leave
     questions for us.  Good night all.

(2-6,Duffy) For my first forum, this was certainly enlightening. Not only (2-6,Duffy) about the product, but it is great to see a group of people (2-6,Duffy) interested enought in their product to participate. Keep up the (2-6,Duffy) good work.
(2-3,Mark V. [Lotus]) Thanks, Duffy.
(2-6,Duffy) Thanks for pulling it together Kevin. (2-4,Kevin/sysop) Mostly good byes, and thanks very much from the ... (2-4,Kevin/sysop) Agenda owners for all your time and for making this ... (2-4,Kevin/sysop) such a great product. (2-3,Mark V. [Lotus]) Okay Kevin...that's a wrap. Talk/write to you soon! (2-4,Kevin/sysop) Good night, Mark
(2-3,Mark V. [Lotus]) Good night, Joe. Thanks for the hands-on testing. (2-5,Joe N. [Lotus]) I think I'll head home now if we are done (2-4,Kevin/sysop) We are, and thank you very much. Safe home. (2-5,Joe N. [Lotus]) Good night
Capture buffer closed Tue Oct 23 21:55:47